I'm glad you've done this thread.. (it gives me no pleasure to say so!)

(sorry I haven't read the books refered to here... so, sorry if ad libbing off the top of one's head is annoying to some folks!)..

it's an issue and topic that is of importance... some churches are liberal in the use of language others seem to confine it to various hymns..

I worry about how as language /occasions these words are used...

the I refer to them as the 'd s and e' words to avoid their actual mention.. others are confident and comfortable to use them .. but I sometimes wonder: but to say what exactly... apart from usually make me cringe.. very occasionally GOD's WORD occasions and I specifically mean the distinction of GOD's Ministry rather than when we think we can and have or think we have a point to make... it all sounds very different... ok so what is my point here exactly ... me giving too much importance and emphjasis by not mentioning those words? it's about the learning of discipline of Faith that we look to the short fall and falling short (temptation and the resonance of some pretty far from anywhere but darkness stuff) places of fear and reactions far from peace though there might be a sense of quiet (but not exactly peace) that gives a sense of disquiet to others..

I am fascinated by the theology of the Book of Job that puts GOD wholeheartedly in the middle of control of everything and all happenings and events.. certainly it was a mystery to and a surprise to hear words use along with concepts that seemed to take away the emphasis of GOD'S ABUNDANCE and DOMINION.. and yet we get all uptight and dramatic about the car breaking down or whatever.. on our way to church? Does not GOD want us to call on GOD first? and is there not a different purpose other than we are expecting to .. cos that's how we in our minds eye see it?

Job engages with GOD whilst others have their pre-planned solutions and analyses (am ad libbing I haven't read the whole of Job in detail recently) even at the end when all is said and done... it's not about engaging with anything but GOD... GOD asks for nothing else nothing less

Jesus temptation in the wilderness is fascinating.. it's all about pride status power arrogance and showing off and dominion... in other words using gifts for purposes for which GOD intends else... it is furthermore challenging the angel that's gone wrong (also described as the false light) so Jesus first deals with the Spiritual Realm within the raw bones of Creation and then with men .. but Jesus whilst addressing the situation and apparently? the personified .. Jesus does not engage with the 'subplot' in anyway other than a sense of peace and a sense of quiet statement understanding and Authority as ... the sense of tone here is fascinating ... it's about recognition and response re-iteration of the Law from Deutoronomy.. it's not the origins of GOD's Gifting that's in question but the furtherance or use.. it's very much about the intention of GOD's Gifting and Jesus spends a whole lot of time trying to reiterate the usage and purpose against injustice and hoarding and teaching without GOD's Authority things in GOD'S NAME in the Faith context setting of GOD'S PEOPLE... who live the trappings but not the burden of guilt of GOD'S RELATIONSHIP The Liberation message..but it's a settling of dispute .. the what should have done happened before there was a book to refer to?

GOD BLESS!

Peace and Love,